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Church
Jun 8, 2005 19:27:21 GMT -5
Post by Kawishiway on Jun 8, 2005 19:27:21 GMT -5
Paddle Faster Pastor, (assisted by Trout Breath and music provided by JStroke, photography provided by Nibi), held a Christian service at Copia this year for the first time ever recorded in Copia's history.
Something profound was said. Something about us that travel the woods consider the woods our church and here we seek fellowship with God, with the great Spirit. Then something was said to the effect of acknowledging the presence of God in the wilderness. Kinda hard to ignore in the great out doors. But where are the people? You need people and fellowship for church. Those words spoke that day somehow stuck into my soul. I've found a church I've been attending for the last month now that I feel comfortable in. I'd say it's done me some good.
I don't mean to sound preachy or get on the old soap box either. I'm simply stating my view. I've found a church and a people I enjoy within that body, as much as I've enjoyed many of you. I hope others have something as comforting as this in their lives too.
k
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Church
Jun 9, 2005 9:15:50 GMT -5
Post by bogwlkr on Jun 9, 2005 9:15:50 GMT -5
K
I understand your point, but I see it different.
I enjoy the people in my church and agree they contribute to the whole, but I do not need them to have a relationship with God or to worship him wherever or whenever that is right for me.
I do agree the people in my church help me in my relationship with God.
I have had some of my best conversations with him in the wilderness and feel closer to him while I am there. To me there is something about the majesty and beauty of the wilderness that highlights his vision and power. It has less of our stamp on it and more of his true glory. I find what PFP said in Madison to be very true to me.
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Church
Jun 9, 2005 15:09:16 GMT -5
Post by troutbreath on Jun 9, 2005 15:09:16 GMT -5
This is not an either/or but a both/and.
If you read the New Testament, you will see that Jesus regularly went off by himself to the wilderness to pray. These times of isolation and solitude were times where he was able to reconnect with the Father. The wilderness was important primarily because it allowed him separation from the world.
King David in the Old Testament spent a great deal of time in the wilderness out of necessity. He was, for many of his formative years, a shepherd. In that arid climate it was (and is) necessary for shepherds to take their flocks though lonely, desolate and, sometimes, beautiful places. David used his experiences in the wilderness to explain his relationship to God in a beautiful way.
Wilderness in the Bible is a place of wandering (Israel between Egypt and the promised land) and temptation (Jesus being tempted in the wilderness.) but it is also a place of refuge (Elijah) and escape (Jacob.) I don’t think that it is coincidence that wilderness in the Bible has both of these meanings.
Yet wilderness is never the end. Those who went into the wilderness came out. Jesus would rejoin his disciples and continue his task of salvation. David left the wilderness and became king and psalmist. The nation of Israel came out of the wilderness into the Promised Land. As unprepared as they would have been without the time in the wilderness, they would have been incomplete if they had stayed there. It seems clear to me that if we stay in the wilderness, we miss the point of togetherness and fellowship. People are imperfect (myself included.) We need to get away so that we can refocus and deal with the friction that will happen in fellowship with others. Yet, without that friction, we do not grow.
For me, the best times are the times of worship and fellowship that take place when we have gotten away together. They are times where we can isolate and truly get to know others and get to know God. But this cannot happen all the time. The beauty of Church is that it is more regular and here. The beauty of wilderness is that it is irregular and there. I am thankful for both.
TB
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Church
Jun 9, 2005 21:57:52 GMT -5
Post by Kawishiway on Jun 9, 2005 21:57:52 GMT -5
Perhaps I misspoke. I meant to say that fellowship with other believers is a good thing". It seems to be helpfully. I also agree with what you Bogs and TB have both said whole heartedly. The truth is that I have not been attending a church regularly in a long, long time. Those words spoke at Copia prompted me to look for a church I felt at home in. Seems I've found one, other than the outdoors experience only. And please note what I meant to say is that it is kinda hard to ignore the majesty of God's works and His presence while in the wilderness. Living in a city, it's nice to have found a church I enjoy.
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Church
Jun 10, 2005 8:52:54 GMT -5
Post by bogwlkr on Jun 10, 2005 8:52:54 GMT -5
K-I appreciate the calrification. Glad you have found a church family to support you while "In Town"
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Church
Jun 11, 2005 10:55:54 GMT -5
Post by Canoearoo on Jun 11, 2005 10:55:54 GMT -5
Thats really good K ;D We have a church as well, and it took me a long time to get to know some of the women (I think women relationships are complicated lol). Anyhow, now I think of it as a family. One of the benefits of family is the roles we play. Everyone at my church know that my 'role' is canoing, camping expert. This is neat because everyone comes up to me with there BW stories and plans. Also some of the ladies have been talking about doing a BW trip with me as a leader. To me this is exciting because these ladies are not what I picture as the BW type If your not careful, you passion for God and Church will begin to blend with your passion with canoing and before you know it you'll have canoing partners coming out everywhere
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Church
Jun 12, 2005 14:16:56 GMT -5
Post by 02Chief on Jun 12, 2005 14:16:56 GMT -5
A church(building) is a place to gather together for fellowship and is very important but the true church that Christ is coming back for is the body of Christ, the people that the Holy Spirit resides in. The majestic wondrous things of the earth that God created are very important also, many ask how can someone that has never heard of Christ be saved. There were many in the past and i`m sure there are some today that have never heard the word, how are they going to be saved. Because when they see everything that God created they know that there had to be a higher power that made it and in their heart they accept that. They have never heard the word so they can not reject the word and will go to heaven IMO. I believe everyones name is in the book of life and only by rejecting Christ is your name blotted out, thus those that never heard are saved. In fact i find it hard to believe anyone that takes a good hard look at the stars and the wonders of the earth can not believe in God. www.fellowshiponline.org/biblestudies/haventheard.htmwww.fellowshiponline.org/biblestudies/name_erased.htm
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Church
Jun 13, 2005 9:31:18 GMT -5
Post by bogwlkr on Jun 13, 2005 9:31:18 GMT -5
Cindy you are right about roles in the church. I enjoy my role of BW trip planner, organizer and sometimes chaperone. The trips have introduced many to the BWCAW and some of those have become the new chaperones. Because of that-even though I could not go on any trips as a chaperone this year, we still have three youth trips and two womens trips (never have done the womens trip BTW). I helped organize, plan and set up the trips for others to enjoy which makes me feel good. With our move we may be changing churches. It is a difficult decision but the current church is so far away and it might be better to be part of a church nearer to our home and community. I hope I can fill a similar role in any church we attend. I would miss helping the youth to find the wonder out in the wilderness.
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